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Answer: Since the English in the KJV translated 5:32 very competently, (I have heard of no-one to have claimed that is not the case), common sense then dictates that the basic mechanical mechanisms that exist in the English must exist in the Greek fr om whence it was translated. Since I am maintaining that the English was translated perfectly and that the grammar in the English is perfect WHEN the exception is read as merely identifying the premarital divorce as the only divorce allowable, then the burden of proof rather rests on you to prove that the English in the KJV was not a very competent and straight across trustworthy translation, resulting in a grammatically perfect English rendering which reflects that the Greek was also grammatically perfect. The English is NOT at all in any way perfect WHEN fornication is interpreted to mean “adultery”, therefore since the basic mechanics of the grammar are a disaster in English WHEN “fornication” is interpreted to mean ‘adultery, therefore that failure of the basic mechanics of the grammar have to also exist in the Greek. In other words, since the translation fr om the Greek to the English was straight across and not difficult, and since all 4 main clauses, that are interdependent for grammatical competency, become perfectly competent under the betrothal explanation, but under the divorce for adultery explanation the sentence becomes a grammatical quagmire, it is safe to conclude that the same occurs in the Greek. This is because the breakdown occurs at the level of the basic grammatical mechanics: something done, something caused, with an exception indicating an allowance which does not cause what is named.
Ali, you wrote:
“Greek and English have many similarities, but without being able to prove that the orignal Greek is grammatical nonsense, you are merely arguing that the English translators got it wrong. I see no evidence that you have looked at the Greek.”
I am conscious of how others who read your posts will take what you write. Taking what you wrote above, very literally, you are making a very false claim concerning my position. Someone reading that sentence and supposing that it fairly represents what I am saying may reasonably conclude that I believe the English translators of the KJV got it wrong.
So your sentence, taken very literally, very badly misrepresents me. Let me ins ert within brackets into the first part of your above sentence to clearly reflect my position:
“Greek and English have many similarities, but without being able to prove that the orignal Greek [when the exception clause is interpreted to be allowing a post marital divorce] is grammatical nonsense …,”
Since we are speaking of grammatical mechanical function on a very basic level, (something done, something caused etc.) then since the English becomes a quagmire under one interpretation but becomes grammatically perfect under another interpretation, common sense would dictate that such is the case also in the Greek.
Now for the last part of your sentence, which is literally a very false statement:
“ … you are merely arguing that the English translators got it wrong. I see no evidence that you have looked at the Greek.”
I am not in any way arguing that the KJV got it wrong. The KJV is a very highly respected English translation, not a paraphrase. “Porneia” and “fornication” appear to be cognates. Are you rather the one claiming that the respectable KJV translated 5:32 wrongly? I maintain that they translated it perfectly and that it makes perfect grammatical sense WHEN the exception clause is understood to be pointing to the premarital divorce as the only acceptable divorce.
Concerning your points 2-4 with this quote at the end:
“You are not the only one to hold to the betrothal position, but to my knowledge you are the only one to put forward this argument, which, again, should it be accurate, is a very strong argument for the betrothal position. In other words, if you were right about this assertion, I’d expect to have heard or read about it before.”
It is not only very strong, it permanently nails the coffin shut on the post marital divorce explanation of the exception clause.
I am the only one, to my knowledge, who has ever put forth this argument, but I assume that because it is so basically simple and irrefutable, others must have arrived at it by revelation as I did. Never mind that we don’t know of anyone else who has thought of it, the fact that it is impossible to construct a sentence after the format of 5:32 that literally makes sense, wherein the exception clause pertains directly to the topic of the sentence, is by itself irrefutable proof that it is accurate that Jesus could not have intended the exception clause to pertain to the post marital divorce. It should be very easy to disprove the claim if it were false: produce just one grammatical parallel of 5:32 wh ere the exception clause pertains specifically to the topic of the sentence. It is not possible because doing so creates a logical fallacy by violating basicAnswer: Since the English in the KJV translated 5:32 very competently, (I have heard of no-one to have claimed that is not the case), common sense then dictates that the basic mechanical mechanisms that exist in the English must exist in the Greek from whence it was translated. Since I am maintaining that the English was translated perfectly and that the grammar in the English is perfect WHEN the exception is read as merely identifying the premarital divorce as the only divorce allowable, then the burden of proof rather rests on you to prove that the English in the KJV was not a very competent and straight across trustworthy translation, resulting in a grammatically perfect English rendering which reflects that the Greek was also grammatically perfect. The English is NOT at all in any way perfect WHEN fornication is interpreted to mean “adultery”, therefore since the basic mechanics of the grammar are a disaster in English WHEN “fornication” is interpreted to mean ‘adultery, therefore that failure of the basic mechanics of the grammar have to also exist in the Greek. In other words, since the translation from the Greek to the English was straight across and not difficult, and since all 4 main clauses, that are interdependent for grammatical competency, become perfectly competent under the betrothal explanation, but under the divorce for adultery explanation the sentence becomes a grammatical quagmire, it is safe to conclude that the same occurs in the Greek. This is because the breakdown occurs at the level of the basic grammatical mechanics: something done, something caused, with an exception indicating an allowance which does not cause what is named.
Ali, you wrote:
“Greek and English have many similarities, but without being able to prove that the orignal Greek is grammatical nonsense, you are merely arguing that the English translators got it wrong. I see no evidence that you have looked at the Greek.”
I am conscious of how others who read your posts will take what you write. Taking what you wrote above, very literally, you are making a very false claim concerning my position. Someone reading that sentence and supposing that it fairly represents what I am saying may reasonably conclude that I believe the English translators of the KJV got it wrong.
So your sentence, taken very literally, very badly misrepresents me. Let me ins ert within brackets in to the first part of your above sentence to clearly reflect my position:
“Greek and English have many similarities, but without being able to prove that the orignal Greek [when the exception clause is interpreted to be allowing a post marital divorce] is grammatical nonsense …,”
Since we are speaking of grammatical mechanical function on a very basic level, (something done, something caused etc.) then since the English becomes a quagmire under one interpretation but becomes grammatically perfect under another interpretation, common sense would dictate that such is the case also in the Greek.
Now for the last part of your sentence, which is literally a very false statement:
“ … you are merely arguing that the English translators got it wrong. I see no evidence that you have looked at the Greek.”
I am not in any way arguing that the KJV got it wrong. The KJV is a very highly respected English translation, not a paraphrase. “Porneia” and “fornication” appear to be cognates. Are you rather the one claiming that the respectable KJV translated 5:32 wrongly? I maintain that they translated it perfectly and that it makes perfect grammatical sense WHEN the exception clause is understood to be pointing to the premarital divorce as the only acceptable divorce.
Concerning your points 2-4 with this quote at the end:
“You are not the only one to hold to the betrothal position, but to my knowledge you are the only one to put forward this argument, which, again, should it be accurate, is a very strong argument for the betrothal position. In other words, if you were right about this assertion, I’d expect to have heard or read about it before.”
It is not only very strong, it permanently nails the coffin shut on the post marital divorce explanation of the exception clause.
I am the only one, to my knowledge, who has ever put forth this argument, but I assume that because it is so basically simple and irrefutable, others must have arrived at it by revelation as I did. Never mind that we don’t know of anyone else who has thought of it, the fact that it is impossible to construct a sentence after the format of 5:32 that literally makes sense, wherein the exception clause pertains directly to the topic of the sentence, is by itself irrefutable proof that it is accurate that Jesus could not have intended the exception clause to pertain to the post marital divorce. It should be very easy to disprove the claim if it were false: produce just one grammatical parallel of 5:32 wh ere the exception clause pertains specifically to the topic of the sentence. It is not possible because doing so creates a logical fallacy by violating basic
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